[CALIBK12] Against two or more lists -- you bring up great points!

Sun Jan 20 17:28:59 PST 2008

DeAnn21 at aol.com writes:

  "One would surmise that what is of value to one individual might not be of equal value to the next.

   However, I would caution against making two, or more, lists. The school library community in California already possess a gulf, and resentment, between non-certificated and certificated library staff, plus those that teach at an university level. I surmise dividing the list would only exacerbate the existing chasm."

I agree with you completely.  I merely suggested this idea as a possibility for those who think this site is not academic enough. I disagree with them. I find what I need -- both academic (research, pedagogy, etc)  and nuts-and-bolts (how-to info) with no trouble based on how people fill out the subject lines in their posts.

  In the spirit of unity not division,
  Connie Young
  iowan at scbglobal.net
  KHSD teacher, English
  Librarian-to-be

DeAnn21 at aol.com wrote:
      Fellow Listers:

  One would surmise that what is of value to one individual might not be of equal value to the next.

   However, I would caution against making two, or more, lists. The school library community in California already possess a gulf, and resentment, between non-certificated and certificated library staff, plus those that teach at an university level. I surmise dividing the list would only exacerbate the existing chasm. 

  The "important issue" comment, though I don't think was intended as an insult, I can certainly see how others might interpret it that way. Someone might find my wanting practical ideas for elementary-students (Yes, students)-who-are-socio-economically-disadvantaged-that-have-a-parent-in-prison-and-move-from-one-eviction-to-the-next-and-are reading-at-a-pre-K-level-even-though-they-are-in-2nd-grade-because-they-only-come-to school-sporadically-excited-about-reading-and-books low on the important discussion bar. 

  To those people I would send: Greetings from the my library trenches!

  My students may be digital "natives", but most don't own a computer. And if they do, it's a toy to play games on, or to fight for time with their teenage sibling whose digital knowledge doesn't go much beyond making a MySpace and Photobucket.

  I understand the challenges I face on a daily basis are a result of conditions that are beyond my job scope, and could warrant a  discussion that most likely would be considered an "important issue" on it's own outside the school library community. I think topics and discussions such as those proposed by Professor Loertscher ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND I WANT TO READ ABOUT THEM here. I understand they may affect me and my students in the future.

  Meantime back at the school library........

  I have 150+ 1st-5th grade students tromping through my library on daily basis and I want to share my enthusiasm and joy for reading. Hopefully, through that, some, if not all, my students will "catch" it also. I am always on the lookout for "tips" and shared experiences that would make it, dare I say-easier? With the digital age, education is experiencing a colossal transition and school libraries are going right along with it. Roles once clearly defined, aren't so clear anymore. And, because change is rapid, and constant, it adds to the confusion.I've overheard teacher conversations questioning whether THEY were going to be necessary in the future and what was their role going to be? So, librarians not alone in this.  

  As far as discussion topics go  I have never been fond of this expression (actually, I rather hate it), but I think it highly appropriate here: It's all good!    

DeAnn Campbell
Julius Corsini Elementary School
Palm Springs Unified School District

Opinions expressed by me are proudly, and unequivocally, my own and are not necessarily those held by Palm Springs Unified School District. 

    In a message dated 1/20/2008 1:28:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, iowan at sbcglobal.net writes:
    You are preaching to the choir, here, Mr Boards. And I did comment, as you have, about this study. I think many who post here raise the bar in many ways. I think we have to pull the teachers into the mix more than we do.  "Regular classroom"  teachers (I am one) who want to keep up with and try to stay ahead in education, use the technology you mention in your post, use databases, use current research, and teach their student to use these as well.  The trick is pulling all the teachers into the dance. 

  My other concern about CALIB stems from what I sense is a perceptual difference in how users view it.

  Is there a debate brewing about the value of  certain posts on CALIB? 

  I think there's a place for all information on this site. I maintain that the people who run it (sjsu.edu) could set it up to have categories (see other email I sent regarding this), or we can leave it as is. 

I am perfectly happy to scroll to what I want to read and need to read. There is no rule about what one can post here... and that's fine with me. Maybe others have different opinions. Let them speak.  

David Bogardus <dabogardus at earthlink.net> wrote:
    body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}      I am glad Dr. L is raising the bar here with our discussions of library topics. Haven't we all had the sneeking suspicion that what we are teaching our students would eventually make us obsolete? 
  pre 1908's- If we teach them how to use the card catalog they won't need us to find a book. (At least they need me to make the cards)
  1980s - If I show them how to use these resources on CD-ROM they won't use my cards. At least they need me to show them how to find things with these new browsers.
  1990 - If I show them how to Google they won't need me at all. At least they will enjoy my lessons on collaboration.
  2000s - If they are using backs of my old catalog cards to write down their grades they track online, they are using their flash drives to download everything they need to take home with them, and they all have a personalized Google page, and they collaborate with their phones, PDA's and Facebook.....
  maybe, just maybe, I can get them to read my blog.   http://librarywalls.blogspot.com/
  and when the money in California is gone for everything but essential services, what will we tell them? That will probably be when we fall on our swords and tell them to continue to fund all of these wonderful services we fought so hard for  to help our students achieve and we return to the classroom to show them how to use them. Oh, that's right, our libraries are our classroom. 
  David Bogardus
  Pomona Unified School District
  -----Original Message----- 
From: Connie Young <iowan at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Jan 19, 2008 12:31 PM 
To: David loertscheer <reader.david at gmail.com>, CALIBK12 at lists.sjsu.edu 
Subject: Re: [CALIBK12] DO NOT IGNORE THIS RESEARCH STUDY 

  Please see my other email, and thank you for the link. Here are some isolated items from the study and my comments:

  "89 percent of college students use search engines
  to begin an information search (while only 2 per
  cent start from a library web site)" 

  My comments: unless you can get your staff to want to embrace and use the library web sites themselves -- and the data bases -- the students won't get direct instruction. I learned how to use the data bases as soon as we purchaseed them at my school site, several years ago. I've taught students how to use them for research ever since. I am in the minority of teachers at my school (in all subject areas) who use them. I teach English and use them for personal research, too.
  â€¢
  93 per cent are satisfied or very satisfied with their
  overall experience of using a search engine
  (compared with 84 per cent for a librarian-assisted
  search) 
  Perhaps their experiences with librarian-assisted searches have been poor? The numbers are not that far from each other to suggest that "we" (librarians) are doing a bad job in the area of "customer service" on the whole, I think, but 16% must have had bad experiences. What were their complaints? (I have not read the whole study yet. Is this answered within, Dr. L.?)
  â€¢
  search engines fit college studentsâ€™ life styles better
  than physical or online libraries and that fit is
  `almost perfectâ€™ 

  Maybe they do and maybe they don't. What percentage of students were polled here. How do they define "almost perfect"? I will need to find out more about this. Perhaps it is detailed in the study. I think most students like the "work from home" (dorm room, etc) that computers allow. What makes them turn more to search engines is they learn them first. Comfort...
  â€¢
  college students still use the library, but they are
  using it less (and reading less) since they first
  began using internet research tools.

Comment: with all due respect, what are they "reading less: of? Print/books? This is a bit ambiguous. I think there's much to read online and the right sources there are as valuable as any print sources if they suit the reader/reseacher's needs.
  â€¢
  `booksâ€™ are still the primary library brand association
  for this group, despite massive investment in
  digital resources, of which students are largely
  unfamiliar

  Comment: We need to teach how to use the digital natives how to be digital literates.

  Connie Young

David loertscher <reader.david at gmail.com> wrote:
  Stop!   

  Do not go through this weekend without reading a very important research study done by the British Library.

  You can find it at:

  http://www.jisc.ac.uk/media/documents/programmes/reppres/gg_final_keynote_11012008.pdf 

The state of CA school libraries is diming because of the state budget.

  Shouldn't we concentrate our discussion  as a group on important issues like this study bring up? 

  Should there be a separate CAlibK-12 that discusses issues rather than just the tips and helps that now predominate the discussion?

  Did the geranium on the window sill just die but the librarians just went on?

  I suggest we all read this study this weekend and post important ideas we find that would make a difference in what we are doing. 

  Cheers.

  Professor David V. Loertscher
School of Library and Information Science 
San Jose State University
312 South 1000 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84102
801-755-1122 
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For information about the Calibk12 listserve, please
visit  http://www.calibk12.net.

DeAnn Campbell
Julius Corsini Elementary School
Palm Springs Unified School District

Opinions expressed by me are proudly, and unequivocally, my own and are not nessarily those held by Palm Springs Unified School District. 

---------------------------------
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