[CALIBK12] - A response to Tony's post

Wed Mar 5 15:23:40 PST 2008

Joanne (and anyone else I offended),

I apologize if my post offended you.  That was not my intent. The post was meant for the list and was not aimed at you, or anyone else, personally.   I didn't mean to "cc the list", I just hit respond to all because I thought it was interesting discussion about a professional topic.  When I wrote "you" I was addressing everyone.  Perhaps "we" or "any librarian" would have been better choices. 

The discussion talked about a religion collection being balanced if it had books about multiple religions and I think that is a false idea.  Strobels book claims scientific evidence of the existence of God.  A collection that contains that work is not balanced if it does not include a representative of the counter argument.  In my readings and conversations I have noted that many people, librarians included, are OK with having books about Islam, or Hinduism, or many other religions in a school library but atheism and Wicca and a few other belief systems seem to strike a raw nerve.  Many librarians are hesitant to include them either because of personal beliefs or fear of a reaction from the community. On controversial issues like religion and abortion I think we have an obligation to provide as much balance as possible.  If not, then we are promoting a particular viewpoint.  It would be better to have no books on a controversial subject than to have a biased collection.  I in no way meant to imply that you personally had done that.  That is just my opinion about collection development and controversial issues.  And I was not trying to dictate particular titles for anyone's collection, I was giving examples of contrary viewpoints.

It is like the debate (not a negative word, debate is healthy and necessary) about Pullman's books in that people were wrangling over whether he is an atheist or not, with the implication that if he is, or if his books were anti-religion then they would be somehow less defensible if challenged.  We all have pro-religion books in our collection (fiction and non-fiction) so my point is why would anti-religious works be a problem?

I wasn't angry or thinking evil thoughts about you when I responded, I was just waxing philosophical (a sure sign that I am avoiding huge piles of real work) because I really do love these discussions.  And I don't expect everyone to be of the same opinion.  It disturbs me that I made you or anyone else angry.  That was not my goal.  Please don't take what I say personally, it is not meant that way.  I really try not to be a mean person (although my children don't believe that).  Please excuse my poor phrasing.

Tony

--------------------------------------------------
Tony Doyle, Teacher Librarian 
Member California Young Reader Medal Committee
Livingston High School
Livingston, CA
tdoyle at MUHSD.K12.CA.US
Http://www.lhswolves.org/library/index.htm
Http://lhsblog.edublogs.org <http://lhsblog.edublogs.org/> 
"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture; you just have to get people to stop reading them."
Ray Bradbury

WARNING: The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are intended only for the recipient(s) identified in the To and CC fields.  Comments made herein do not represent the opinions or positions of the Merced Union High School District, only the (sometimes uninformed) opinions of the sender.  This message is protected by copyright law, an alarm, a guard dog, a video surveillance system, and powerful magic.  If you are somehow offended by this message don't feel obligated to notify the sender of your outrage/anger/hurt feelings.  Just delete it.  It was probably just a typo anyway.  Remember: don't e-mail in anger. If you are forwarding this message to others, stop and think, is this message really so interesting that you want to bother other people with it?  I mean really, is the content of this message so profound that it bears repeating?  The author is given to long-winded ramblings and everyone I know gets enough of that in their inboxes already.  Sure, he's handsome, funny, and a great cook (and modest to a fault), but that doesn't mean everyone wants to read his e-mails.

________________________________

From: ladewig [mailto:shatz at verizon.net]
Sent: Tue 3/4/2008 8:14 PM
To: CALIB POST
Cc: Doyle_Tony
Subject: RE: [CALIBK12] - A response to Tony's post

Tony cc'd the list with his response to Sarah and myself (original post
replicated below)and included this comment:

"If you, or your community, are unwilling to have the atheist viewpoint
represented then you shouldn't have the pro-religion titles either."

Thank you Tony, for that "gentle and kindly-put" reminder. Oh wait, when did
either Sarah or I say we (or our communities) were unwilling to have atheist
viewpoints represented in the collection??? We didn't!!!

Tony wrote: "This is just like the Golden Compass debate.  If I can have
C.S. Lewis and Tim La Haye on the shelf then I can have Philip Pullman too."

Is it just like the G.C. debate? I thought Pullman's book was a work of
fiction (albeit with anti-religious undertones) and we are discussing works
cataloged and housed in the nonfiction section (according to Dewey, anyway).

And I didn't realize we were debating - I thought we were discussing. I
thought we were being asked for our insight and opinions, and perhaps legal
aspects if we were knowledgeable in that area. I never wrote nor did I
indicate that a library should not have G.C. (or Phillip Pullman, et al),
via this listserve and I don't think Sarah did either. Tony, I never
DICTATED to you (or anyone else on this listserve) what to put or not put on
your shelves. Am I out of line to expect the same courtesy from you? My
comments were suggestions/observations and a reminder that "when in doubt"
refer to the selection policy.

As far as "Atheism" is concerned, it is a belief system, and therefore falls
into the category of "religion" despite the belief being in the negative
(i.e. God or "god" does not exist). So if Tony (and his community) wants to
stock the 200s shelf with arguments against "religion," that's your business
Tony. Neither I nor Sarah said you couldn't or shouldn't.

As for me, I don't have any of the books Tony mentioned by title - either
religious or anti-religious. I'm at a K - 6 site. I have one shelf (due to
lack of shelving in general)for all the 200s including about half a shelf of
mythology. The other half of the shelf is composed of a variety of books
(and a variety of religions represented) and the ones on the shelf that I
selected all had favorable reviews and were purchased via a secular book
vendor.

And that's an important aspect that Richard pointed out - do the materials
have favorable reviews? Personally, this is one area I would not "open the
door" and actively promote donations - I'd be very concerned that certain
groups might wish to "flood" the shelf with their particular doctrine in a
proselytizing format or that the books be from private organizations which
have not had their materials submitted to professional review sources, and
might be racist, biased, inaccurate, etc. But that's my personal (and I
think, "Professional") decision and one I would recommend but not one I
would dictate to anyone else.

Joanne Ladewig (A.K.A. "Library Lady")
Library Media Tech
Lawrence Elementary, GGUSD
Garden Grove, California
shatz at verizon.net

Comments are my own and may not represent the views of GGUSD

"Never forget, Americans, that yours is a spiritual country. Yes, I know
you're a practical people. Like others, I've marveled at your factories,
your skyscrapers, and your arsenals. But underlying everything else is the
fact that America began as a God-loving, God-fearing, God-worshipping
people." - General Romulo, General of the Philippines

-----Original Message-----
From: Doyle_Tony [mailto:tdoyle at muhsd.k12.ca.us]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:25 AM
To: ladewig; Daydream Queen
Cc: CALIB POST
Subject: RE: [CALIBK12] The Case for a Creator...Lee Strobel

"... As far as having them in a public school (high school) library, I would
think that a good case could be made for them ... if you have similar books
for other faiths, or requests from students. What does your selection policy
say if anything on this topic?..."

Balance in this case is not just having books about other religions but also
having books that are critical of religions in general and even specific
religions.  Do you have Bertrand Russell or Sam Harris on the shelf next to
Lee Strobel?  They came to very different conclusions on the same questions.
Do you have Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven on the shelf with The Book
of Mormon?  This is just like the Golden Compass debate.  If I can have C.S.
Lewis and Tim La Haye on the shelf then I can have Philip Pullman too. If
you, or your community, are unwilling to have the atheist viewpoint
represented then you shouldn't have the pro-religion titles either.  In a
high school especially, a religion section (or any other section) should
include as many perspectives as possible.

Tony

--------------------------------------------------
Tony Doyle, Teacher Librarian
Member California Young Reader Medal Committee
Livingston High School
Livingston, CA
tdoyle at MUHSD.K12.CA.US
Http://www.lhswolves.org/library/index.htm
Http://lhsblog.edublogs.org <http://lhsblog.edublogs.org/>  <http://lhsblog.edublogs.org/>
"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture; you just have to get
people to stop reading them."
Ray Bradbury

WARNING: The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are intended only
for the recipient(s) identified in the To and CC fields.  Comments made
herein do not represent the opinions or positions of the Merced Union High
School District, only the (sometimes uninformed) opinions of the sender.
This message is protected by copyright law, an alarm, a guard dog, a video
surveillance system, and powerful magic.  If you are somehow offended by
this message don't feel obligated to notify the sender of your
outrage/anger/hurt feelings.  Just delete it.  It was probably just a typo
anyway.  Remember: don't e-mail in anger. If you are forwarding this message
to others, stop and think, is this message really so interesting that you
want to bother other people with it?  I mean really, is the content of this
message so profound that it bears repeating?  The author is given to
long-winded ramblings and everyone I know gets enough of that in their
inboxes already.  Sure, he's handsome, funny, and a great cook (and modest
to a fault), but that doesn't mean everyone wants to read his e-mails.