[CALIBK12] Textbooks/Library Fines and Collecting of Monies

stemig at sbcglobal.net stemig at sbcglobal.net
Sun Feb 1 10:24:19 PST 2009 

I have to agree. Our students must return their books, pay for the books, or work the lost book fine off for 8 dollars an hour. The kids like to work it off. They don't see it as a punishment. After completing their work contract, they seems to enjoy the privilege of getting books. It's a lot of work for us to keep track of the kids who are working sometimes but it helps our kids who don't have the money and teaches them responsibility.
Dana Stemig
Teacher Librarian
Modesto City Schools


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-----Original Message-----
From: Headley Vicki <headley_vicki at cupertino.k12.ca.us>

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:51:46 
To: Donna Purcell<DPurcell at oside.k12.ca.us>; Blanche Woolls<bwoolls at slis.sjsu.edu>; <calibk12 at lists.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [CALIBK12] Textbooks/Library Fines and Collecting of Monies


Hi all
Can I tell you a little story?  It is not about libraries, but it is about
punishment.  My son stole a marker from his teacher and said that he didn't.
I believed my son because he had never lied to me before, but it turned out
this time he was lying.  I was so grateful that he was held accountable for
it.  He had to go in and apologize to the teacher for stealing the marker
and for lying.  He also had to stay after school and help clean up the room.
The teacher explained to him that these particular markers were a little
harder to find that the run-of-the-mill markers that you got from school.
That week we were out shopping and he spotted the markers that his teacher
had a preferred.  He asked if we could purchase them for his teacher.  I
said sure.  Later on that week, he asked if he could do something to pay for
the markers.  I really said "SURE!" And I asked him, "Why do you want to go
the extra mile for this teacher?  I thought you didn't like her."  He said,
"That was before I knew her."  The punishment, fine, whatever, can be the
very vehicle by which a student becomes aware that this is his school, his
library, his librarian.  Consequences are not necessarily alienating.
Sometimes all that time spent in the library warms a kid up to what is going
on. It has worked that way for me.  I have had a kid work off their lost
book, and end up as a library worker because he ended up liking the library.
I have also had kids leave grumbling.  The point is:  making a kid take
responsibility does NOT mean destroying a relationship with the library.
Sometimes it can actually build the relationship!
Vicki


On 1/30/09 3:22 PM, "Donna Purcell" <DPurcell at oside.k12.ca.us> wrote:

> Hi Blanche~
> 
> My library is the most happening place on campus.  I have to turn kids
> away from the door because I get so full in here.  I am very good to my
> kids here and they know it.  My students have never looked at me like a
> jailer. I greet my kids every morning with a smile and a hello and they
> never leave without me telling them to have a great day.  But they also
> know that they have a responsibility and I've only met maybe 2 parents
> in 5 years that believe their student shouldn't take care of their
> responsibility. Both my daughters attended this school (I still have one
> here now) and, believe me, I'd hear about it if the kids didn't like me.
> I'm not worried about damaging the students for life against libraries.
> I feel like I would be doing the students a great disservice by not
> holding them accountable.
> 
> OK, I'm done with this subject.  I wish you all a great weekend and go
> Cardinals.  :) 
> 
> Donna Purcell
> Library Media Technician
> Jefferson Middle School
> Oceanside, CA  92054
> (760) 757-6060 x233
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu
> [mailto:calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu] On Behalf Of Blanche Woolls
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:58 PM
> To: calibk12 at lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [CALIBK12] Textbooks/Library Fines and Collecting of Monies
> 
> Wow!
> 
> No dance, no field trips, no yearbooks, sitting with you, the jailer,
> during lunch. Any idea how these students depict their librarian to
> their 
> parents when they ask for the money to cover that fine. Parents today
> seem 
> to feel the school is at fault for anything that doesn't work in their
> children's learning.
> 
> If that happened to me, I'd never set foot in a library again for the
> rest 
> of my life. When bond issues to build or remodel libraries, school,
> public, or academic, came up, guess what my vote would be. Might not
> care 
> when they cut the jobs of teacher librarians and library technicians
> from 
> my school district.
> 
> I'm sorry but Frances Henne once said (and this is a paraphrase) that
> the 
> only lesson any child needed to learn and a lesson that every child
> could 
> learn regardless of achievement levels was that the library was a happy
> place where the librarians were there to help them.
> 
> Promise to say no more.
> 
> Blanche
> 
> 
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Donna Purcell wrote:
> 
>> At our school, students with overdue books or lost/damaged fines are
> not
>> allowed to attend field trips, get their yearbooks, attend dances,
> etc.
>> This is especially effective for 8th graders.  The 8th grade dance is
>> big here and, of course, they want their yearbooks.  Plus there are a
>> lot of end-of-year field trips.  And they get to sit lunch detention
>> with me everyday in June until they pay or bring the book back. And
>> still, graduation comes and they don't pay and then I send the slips
> on
>> to the high school and hope they have more luck.  We are a military
>> feeder school, so we have a very transient population here.  We have
>> students that don't even check out--they're just gone to some foreign
>> place and I never see the books again.  It's very frustrating.
>> 
>> Donna Purcell
>> Library Media Technician
>> Jefferson Middle School
>> Oceanside, CA  92054
>> (760) 757-6060 x233
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu
>> [mailto:calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu] On Behalf Of Catania, Amy
>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:13 PM
>> To: Blanche Woolls; Glenda Webb
>> Cc: calibk12 at lists.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: [CALIBK12] Textbooks/Library Fines and Collecting of
> Monies
>> 
>> I will speak not from a textbook point of view, but from the main
>> library's point of view.  At the risk of fueling this argument
> further,
>> I would like to know what people would do in place of fines for lost
> and
>> damaged books.  There needs to be some kind of accountability.  We
>> cannot just say, "Oh, poor baby, let's give you another book."  That
>> sends the wrong message that it is all right to borrow something and
> not
>> return it.  At the high school level, incentives for returning books
> on
>> time do not work.  They complain about the incentives and believe that
>> we should have better, more expensive things (oh, the lovely
> entitlement
>> generation).  And really, should we give prizes or incentives for
>> something that students should do in the first place, namely return
> the
>> materials that they have borrowed?  Something needs to be done whether
>> it is fines or something else.  We cannot eat the cost and constantly
>> try to replace books.  Our budgets are frozen, and we do not get SLIP
>> funds.  Right now, only fundraisers and grants (none of which we have
>> been awarded) are our only funding options.  Without the fees
> collected
>> for lost and damaged materials, we would not be able to replace any
>> books at this point.  Maybe it is not the best way, but without the
> bill
>> slips, many of our overdue books would not return.  We do not charge
> if
>> the books are returned, only if they are lost.  Something has to
> happen
>> in order to teach these students responsibility and accountability.
> So,
>> let's open up the discussion.  What should we do instead?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu
>> [mailto:calibk12-bounces at lists.sjsu.edu] On Behalf Of Blanche Woolls
>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 11:30 AM
>> To: Glenda Webb
>> Cc: calibk12 at lists.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: [CALIBK12] Textbooks/Library Fines and Collecting of
> Monies
>> 
>> Since collecting fines in the first place makes an adversary role for
>> the
>> teacher librarian, why would you want to be chasing these students for
>> their entire school lives? The very thought that some mother or father
>> are
>> telling their children not to set foot in the school library because
>> their
>> last name might get them an overdue fine notice from 20 years before
> is
>> mind boggling.
>> 
>> The children and young adults in our schools are there because it is
>> their
>> school, and their library and their gymnasium. It might help them
>> refrain
>> from trashing or even burning their school or their library (some do,
>> and
>> the cost to "fix" is horrendous) if they saw it as their property and
>> not
>> a "them" and "us" situation.
>> 
>> Or maybe I misunderstood your question.
>> 
>> Blanche
>> 
>> On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, Glenda Webb wrote:
>> 
>>> Our district recently went to Destiny.  To clean up some of the
>> records they want to delete any fine before the beginning of this
> school
>> year, including those fines for students still going to this school
>> and/or are still in our school district.
>>> 
>>> The new district directive regarding future assessment of fines is:
>> once a student leaves elementary school, all fines are deleted.  Once
> a
>> student leaves 8th grade, all fines are deleted.  Once a student
> leaves
>> high school, all fines are deleted. The district says this directive
>> meets the ed code.
>>> 
>>> Can any one give me some logical, convincing arguments to sway the
>> district to reconsider their decision.
>>> 
>>> Or give me some logical, convincing arguments that the district's
>> mandate is reasonable.
>>> 
>>> Glenda Webb
>>> LCMS Library
>>> 
>>> 
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